Rosario+Vampire Chapter 23 Discussion

[GrrDraxin]

Well, the raw is out and the story has taken a real twist, possibly for the better. Since I'm not good at starting threads, I'll just fill this post with the images and have a MOD move the relevant posts.


http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1844/rv22300.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/i/rv22300.jpg/)

Here's MY interpretation of the last few panels.... Edited (in MS Paint) as one page of course. Enjoy.


http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8573/223389b.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/223389b.jpg/)http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2470/rvs2v5.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/rvs2v5.jpg/)

Have a nice day. :)

[T-6000]

I hate being a wet blanket, but I don't think it was necessary having yet another character chase after Tsukune. Tsukune has too many chasers on his back, and it pushes aside other characters from being developed. And why did Inner Moka beat the crap out of the others even though it was only Kurumu that insulted her? I know she's supposedly a cold hearted character, but in the second season her bitchiness has gotten way above and way beyond. She's even making Kurogane from Tsubasa Chronicles look like a very nice guy, and I didn't think that was possible. Even in the first season she wasn't this bad. I am now really hoping another character comes along and teaches her the lesson of humility. Like I said, I'm sorry for being a wet blanket here but I can't help but feel this way throughout the entire chapter.

[GrrDraxin]

I think that if you were to put a word to it... english or otherwise, inner Moka would be a "tsun-tsun-dere" instead of just "tsun-dere". But it may be possible she has the mentality of beating down the insulter and those who witnessed the insult. And because of the group being there, they all get it, and Tsukune because the insult has to do with him and her. Make sense? Though for humility I would hope that the one that teaches her that lesson is "the most humble of them all" Tsukune. She's just gonna be difficult until she finally cracks under the pressure... She might even lose him if she takes it too far.

But by the looks of it, it may be possible this male character is a bit more of a friendly version of that ogre from the first season that challenged Tsukune on the school roof. Just a bit more stalker/admirer type than the macho "prove your strength" type.

[T-6000]

Errr....."tsun-tsun-dere" Sorry, my knowledge of Japanese culture is a bit limited. Could you perhaps explain to me what this means? ^^;;

And what sort of Yokai was that guy. Guy? Wait, you sure that was a guy? He looked more like a girl.

[Znail]

Errr....."tsun-tsun-dere" Sorry, my knowledge of Japanese culture is a bit limited. Could you perhaps explain to me what this means? ^^;;

And what sort of Yokai was that guy. Guy? Wait, you sure that was a guy? He looked more like a girl.

Aww, your manga and anime knowledge is lacking :) Tsundere is a used to describe a pretty common type of female character found in manga and anime. Its one who combines a violent (Tsun) personality with a lovable (Dere) one. Usualy because they are unused to guys and shy about expressing their true feelings. So tsun-tsun-dere would be an extra violent variant to the normal Tsundere.

Oh, there is already a more extreme form of Tsundere and that is Yandere. Yan means 'evil' I think, and in this case applies to being psychotic and still in love. Think instead of punching someone that is a threat to her love so will there be an axe and lots of blood :skywalker:

While I am on a roll. dere-dere is used alot and you have probobly seen it translated as 'someone being all love-love with someone' and somewhat of a play on the word Tsundere.

[GrrDraxin]

Aww, your manga and anime knowledge is lacking :) Tsundere is a used to describe a pretty common type of female character found in manga and anime. Its one who combines a violent (Tsun) personality with a lovable (Dere) one. Usualy because they are unused to guys and shy about expressing their true feelings. So tsun-tsun-dere would be an extra violent variant to the normal Tsundere.

Oh, there is already a more extreme form of Tsundere and that is Yandere. Yan means 'evil' I think, and in this case applies to being psychotic and still in love. Think instead of punching someone that is a threat to her love so will there be an axe and lots of blood :skywalker:

While I am on a roll. dere-dere is used alot and you have probobly seen it translated as 'someone being all love-love with someone' and somewhat of a play on the word Tsundere.
Pretty good there Z. But I think this link will give T-6 there an exhaustive explanation on both those terms and more. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tsundere

Other typical types can be reached from that page too.

As for what kind of youkai that guy, and I'm pretty sure it's a guy, and I didn't see anything like a encyclopedia there, but I'm sure that this is not the first time we've seen that kind of youkai because there was another that was bald during the festival when Lilith went hog wild with her mirror. But I think it's a kind of spirit vampire like the girl from the 3x3 Eyes manga/anime. But I have no clue what's it's called.

And to make this post even more interesting, I'm gonna cross-forum quote, just because there is a lot more spoilers to be had.


Cio (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2682088#post2682088)
Finished reading the RAW yesterday, when i want to post the forum is down :(

So, the new character's name is Wan Fan Fan? And have a chinese theme complete with his panda? :heh: Tsukune is pretty bad-ass here.
Ruby's answer about Wan's questioning what are them to Tsukune is priceless, omocha (his toy) :heh: And i want to know what Kurumu said that really hit the point and made Inner Moka really pissed. :heh:

ps: It is just my feeling, but i think Wan Fan Fan is really looks similar to Kiria.

Tri-ring (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2682138#post2682138)
Further spoilers for Ch 23;

It starts in Tsukune's dream after his encounter with Sun, considering about his future and who he is going to spend it with.
Won Faunfaun suddenly appears asking Tsukune to become his groom/bride(? whichever:heh:).
After his reappearance at the newspaper club room he announces that if Tsukune agrees, the mafia is more than lenient towards polygamy and that Won family will look after all of the girls.
That is why Ruby, Mizore, and Kurumu decided not to get involved considering an alternative conclusion for their future knowing at the end Tsukune would select Mocha at the end. (Although Yukari helped out at first she double crossed Tsukune where you can see her tying him in knots and take him to Won)
The kicker is inner Mocha doesn't want to be "One of many" and when Kurumu hinted not knowing Mocha's inner feelings for Monogamy with Tsukune triggered her irrational emotional burst.

Magin (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2682152#post2682152)
It's official:

Moka definitely wants Tsukune all for herself... dammit, now we just have to work past this vampire pride part, and then make sure Tsukune doesn't go down the anime route... and I'll be a very happy person (really, I need to get back to those shoujo mangas where the guy and the girl actually get together...)

[weview]

Finally!! =p

[TigersDemon]

Inoright? I cant wait for the translation :D it looks hilarous

[weview]

It feels like its been ages since the last one. This one sounds really funny (I don't read the RAWs. Ruins it for me)

[GrrDraxin]

Yes, the last parts especially. What's interesting is how the next chapter might go, now that both Mokas have admited(for the most part) their love for Tsukune.

[Znail]

Pretty good there Z. But I think this link will give T-6 there an exhaustive explanation on both those terms and more. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tsundere

Other typical types can be reached from that page too.


Interesting site! :Hip Hip:

Hmm, Moka might actualy be better described as Kuudere!
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Kuudere

Instead of Tsundere (angy outside, sweet inside) so is she more Kuudere (cold outside, sweet inside). She isnt that violent or shouting realy. Most of her violence is to save her otherself, Tsukune or the rest of the cast and not because she is a violent person. This chapter is actualy one of the exceptions when she beats them up due to getting embaressed (we asume thats the reason atleast). But she is cold, dismissive and aloof towards just about everyone, except Tsukune sometimes, wich perfectly describes this type. Her Tsundere steak only comes out when her mask starts to slip and people notice her actual feelings, like this chapter and the one with the date (I think those are the only two examples of her getting violent for her own sake and not to beat up a villain).

[GrrDraxin]

That fits her a little better than the other one.... except until this chapter, because she couldn't keep herself from punishing her own allies just because someone pointed out her true feelings in regards to Tsukune. So she probably kind of bounces between the two states.

[Znail]

I mentioned that part and its actualy happened before, after Moka and Tsukune spent the day shopping (date). I consider two times more of an exception then a rule. But on the other hand so are both these times pretty recent, so her Tsundere tendancies might be a development that is a sign of her stronger feelings towards Tsukune. So we might have a Kuu-Tsun-Dere development in that she goes from cold->angry->sweet. It fits rather neatly with her Tsundere acts being a selfdefence reaction to her cold mask failing. If that is the case, then we should expect more violent reactions from Moka :)

Kurumo might inadvertedly end up being the cupid of the story in that her unabashed flirting with Tsukune and teasing of Moka makes it rather hard for Moka to stay cool and aloof. Tsukune manning up on the physical side helps too as I dont think Moka has much objections against him there anymore. He isnt a 'weak human' anymore by anyones standard. She doesnt berate him for taking risks lately either. That was one of the first signs of her true feelings btw :)

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FearLeadsToAnger

[Thousandsunnny]

Hey the raw looks pretty good! Could anybody tell me we the translation will be out? Oh yeah I think this new character would be good for the series besides the more females on Tsukune. I wish that Tsukune would just admit his fellings to both inner and outer Moka's. Or to have the inner Moka admit her feelings.

[bakaneko]

i vote for inner moka, and i really wanna know why inner moka looks embarrass

im not really against with the inner moka being so cold :)

[Lingwe]

http://www.franky-house.com/forums/showthread.php?p=377205#post377205

Translation is done.

[bakaneko]

thank you Lingwe!!! you totally rock!!

goes to the thread*

[weview]

Thanks Lingwe! Especially with the work you have to do!!!

[TigersDemon]

eh? oh man dude, you rock so much!

[Tycho]

Awesome, new chapter! Can't read Japanese (yet), but it looks like the introduction of a yet another member of the harem...I sense some development in the way of Moka and Tsukune's relationship...maybe just a blind inference, though. Either way, translate soon so us Japanese-illiterate may enjoy it as well.

Sort of sucks that it's only one chapter per month...

[TigersDemon]

um... dude? the translation is already done...

[LordRichardWellington]

Thanks a bunch, a million times over even, Lingwe!

[Tycho]

HAHAHA Wow I thought Fanfan was a chick xDD

it looks like the introduction of a yet another member of the harem...

ahem...yeah, ignore that...

Edit, after finishing reading:
Well...I guess he really is the newest to the harem...wow...

[TigersDemon]

or not. in a twisted kind of way...

[GrrDraxin]

Yup, I'd say that what he REALLY means by "family" is "underling".

[Znail]

Hehe, everyone except Moka realy likes the idea of polygami :) None of the Moka's liked it thou. I wonder how long it will take for Tsukune to realise the significance of that? :)

[GrrDraxin]

Darn, I've been so busy doing other things that I totally forgot to check for the translation until nearly midnight.

Anyway, my thoughts are: Though I was close on my little gag scanlation of pages 38 and 39, I didn't quite get a direct hit on the head of the nail. Had I been smart I would have guessed better that Moka would use her trademark line for her tsundere moment.


I didn't think Tsukune was all THAT well known. But since he only took out the boss of that particular branch of FT, it kind of goes to show that it's only the HARD battles that get mentioned. I guess since it was a fairly easy task for Gin and Haji to wipe out that branch, that it wasn't worth mentioning, and since those two probably went and joined up with Tsukune and company immediately after, whoever started the rumor figured that Tsukune was the boss of the group.

Which if you think about it, he IS the boss, at least when inner Moka's not out. But then that's kinda questionable too, as Moka ASKED Tsukune if she could shut Won up.

But it's now clear that the next few chapters are gonna start covering more on Tsukune's feeling and a possible choice he's bound to make later.

But if Won knew Tsukune and company had any hand in taking down that part of FT (which they did), then FT would know about it too, and could possibly try and eliminate the group. So, we may see FT start to make a move toward that end pretty soon.

[Tycho]

Well don't forget Won's in the Mafia, they would hear early on about underground goings-on like the execution of a whole FT branch...

[Yasu]

About time some more people in leagued with the mafia join the series. The good thing about more mafia (or gang) members joining the scene, is the fact that Tsukune's gang is getting one of the members.

Tsukune's group needed some diversity in it.

[Znail]

Well, one would asume that rumours of what happens to a FT branch would reach FT as fast as the chinese maffia.

[Thousandsunnny]

:Hi: thank you for the Translation!:fh: :cool_pose:

[weview]

Hopefully someone's already on the typesetting etc

[Tycho]

I'm curious to try typesetting (or whatever means taking someone's translation and applying it to a raw). I won't do it seriously for this one, since I'm sure someone's mostly done by now, but I may give next month's a shot (using this one as practice, of course).

[weview]

Sames although I have enough on my plate to deal with. One of these days I'll get around to working for this site...

Any news on this chapter?

[T-6000]

I read through the scanlation, and to tell you the truth this is probably my least favorite chapter. The whole thing just....felt pointless. And was there really a need for an extra character whom is after Tsukune? In fact, he seems to be an annoying as Moose from Ranma 1/2. Hell, he seems to be R+V's version of Moose.

As for Tsukune's dream in the beginning of the chapter, I think he took that dream too much out of context. I don't think he had that dream to be a pervert. That dream seemed to reflect upon his insecurities and his worries, how he'll sooner or later he'll have to come to a decision which girl he'll want to be with. And even his subconscious is telling him to bloody hurry up.

Here's the link to the scanlation:

http://www.binktopia.org/news/47

[Kaiser Nicolai]

I loved the chapter, it was time this was put in perspective, loved the "polygamy union" thing and how each girl views herself in regards to Tsukune (toy, concubine, wife, lover, friend, etc.), not to mention the quote "how do you expect to mantain all these girls with a honest life???"

In terms of the fairy tail arc this chapter does very little, but it does advance the general plot a bit, perhaps R+V is getting close to an end and as such it will start merging the fairy tail storyline with "forcing" Tsukune to choose

[GrrDraxin]

Doubt it will end since there is still more than a year and a half left of their school years until they graduate. But much trouble will be stirred between now and then.

[weview]

Quite a funny chapter. I find Kokoa to be a needless addition, appearing for a few boxes to read through the BL mag. But the whole harem issue needed to be looked at. Its just a shame it points out that Tsukune can only make one choice. Surprised at Yukari's reaction. I always thought her to be more tolerant of Tsukune's indecision

[Yasu]

The witches in this series are definitely by far the horniest ones in the whole group. I wonder whether or not this is a current generation trait for witches or if this is something that occurs naturally among witches.

I wasn't all that surprised to see that both Outer/Inner Moka were against the fact that Tsukune should just choose all of them, instead of making a decision to stay with just 1 person for the rest of his life.

As for Kokoa, I agree that her addition in this chapter wasn't necessary. She really didn't add all that much to this current chapter, so it could make a person wonder what her role is going to be in the future chapters. Until the series takes a more serious turn to Moka's family, Kokoa's character isn't really going to be getting touched up on very much.

[the follower 89]

well sience this new chapter is oficially out i got to say, i'm really glad the chinese guy wasn't really gay, he just want tsukune to be part of his mafia family, sience he is strong.

For the first time in R+V they discussed the fact that they are practicly a harem, and it show that everyone except moka is willing to share tsukune sence they are now friends and all of them like him, is understandable that they want a peaceful ending to all of this, but still it was funny how all of them were so on board whit the whole idea ^^

also moka make a comment of why she could beat up the phoenix, something she usally don't do, sience experienced phoenix are more powerful than vampires, it was experience alone that give moka the edge, and what tsukune don't have sience he has no longer than six months sience he start serious training, still she say that whit his power and training so far he could have defeated whiout calling her out.

[T-6000]

Well at least this chapter did make it clear that a multi-marriage idea wasn't going to happen at all, sorry you guys that wanted this ending. ^^;; I didn't think such an ending would occur, and just as I had thought Tsukune wouldn't have approved of it either (I had a feeling that Moka didn't want this either, but I wasn't able to tell 100%). But I think they could have touched upon this topic without the addition of yet *another* character, especially one that is *really* annoying. And was it necessary for Moka to beat up on Tsukune as well? He was against a Polygamy marriage as well.

[Znail]

Well, she didnt beat them up because of the polygamy. She bea them up because she got embarased by Kurumo. The rest of them was just collateral damage and possibly an attempt to hide her true reason for beating them up.

This chapter actualy confirmed that Inner Moka has made up her mind about Tsukune and wont let anyone else have him. She just wants him to grow up a bit more, get stronger and able to stand up to her without fearing her. But it seems to me that Moka is starting to consider that part a done deal and just a matter of time now.

We might get a bit more conflict within the harem as Kurumo atleast jokingly teased Moka about it and may now realise that she hit closer to home then she thought. I dont think the rest of them will let go of Tsukune without a fight, even if they think they are likely to lose.

[weview]

Some of the tension seems to be gone. Its different now that we consider the group are thinking about moving on from the student life and what they plan on doing. Now it shows that its more likely they are willing to talk about the harem rather than showing that they ignorantly believe Tsukune will pick them or they will have to win him.

[T-6000]

Yeah that's something I've noticed with the girls. They can be nice (well, Mizore is still a little cold hearted), but when it comes to Tsukune good god they can be as savage as....well......demons. And I have a baaaaaaaaad feeling what will happen when Tsukune finally makes his choice. I think that may be part of the reason why he is putting off his decision.

[weview]

Definitely. Shame Tsukune can't grow a pair and make up his mind but Moka seems to be on his side in all of this, insisting that they are all just friends until he can decide. This seems to put her more in his favour, which she was anyway.

[T-6000]

I'll admit that i was a bit surprised that Tsukune was able to grab ahold of that Phoenix by himself until it got real serious. And it seemed like he could do this without drawing upon his ghoul ability directly. I can't help but wonder if the Ghoul blood and Moka's training is turning him more into a MetaHuman?

[Yasu]

At least this chapter showed that Tsukune has been going through the training with Inner Moka for something. I almost thought that Tsukune was going to win this battle against the Phoenix by himself.

[weview]

Did anyone else feel the attitude of the Phoenix (cocky, arrogant) didn't match the beautiful, graceful creature from myth and folklore?

[GrrDraxin]

Yeah that's something I've noticed with the girls. They can be nice (well, Mizore is still a little cold hearted), but when it comes to Tsukune good god they can be as savage as....well......demons. And I have a baaaaaaaaad feeling what will happen when Tsukune finally makes his choice. I think that may be part of the reason why he is putting off his decision.Tsukune probably is under the impression that if he did choose someone, that person would become the sole target of the wrath of all the other losers that didn't get picked and try and kill them without much thought to how much this outcome would hurt Tsukune in the end.

It's obvious that things are playing to the tune of "the first girl wins" rule, as the theme goes. This is, in my opinion, way too common a theme for many mangas, and it would be refreshing to see an ending where Moka doesn't win, or things fall into place for a harem end being an alternative to a "hollow" victory for whoever would have won anyway.

Things could turn out in any number of ways. And for everyone to fight to the death would be the worst possible outcome of this group's ambitions. Tsukune's role is to PREVENT bloodshed between them, not encourage it.

[weview]

Caught in the middle really. The only way to make a harem manga keep going I suppose.

[TigersDemon]

well im sure there are other ways... i cant think of any but im sure there are.

[Znail]

Well, wich girl Tsukune wants have never realy been in question. So while some fans may like other girls then Moka so doesnt it make any sense for the story to suddenly end up with Tsukune and one of the other girls. What have kept the harem part of the story going is the difficulties between Tsukune and Moka, not that there is any question wich girl Tsukune likes.

There are other harem manga where the question of wich girl the guy ends up with is the main drive of the story, but R+V isnt one of them. You could compare say Ichigo 100% with Ai Yori Aoshi, both are considered harem mangas but while in the first so is the guys quest for his dream girl a big part of the story so does the other story start with the guy getting secretly engaged with the girl. R+V has alot in common with Ai Yori Aoshi in that its not a question of who he ends up with, but the difficulties reaching there. The rest of the girls are there to spice up the story, not as alternative endings.

[T-6000]

Yeah, R+V is a little different from other harem anime/manga, since we know that Tsukune wants to be with Moka but he's gotta deal with the other girls and Inner Moka first. How the hell he's going to go past those hurdles, lord knows. But I just hope that the manga doesn't end with Tsukune tells the girls that he loves them all. I swear, if that happens I'll shove my head right through my Computer Monitor (the one on my gaming rig since the monitor on this laptop I am typing on is too puny).

By the way, anyone wanna make any guesses as to what the next chapter will be about? I'm thinking it'll be about Fairy Tale sending an assassin (or assassins) after the newspaper club, or it'll cover more on Wun Fanfan (Which I am hoping not, since he's so annoying. Well, at least to me).

[GrrDraxin]

This chapter opened and closed rather completely, no foreshadowing whatsoever, so it's anyone's guess what happens next.

[LordRichardWellington]

I'm guessing that Wun Fanfan will be semi-important in later chapters, after everything gets setup. Ya know have Tsukune and crew meet him, then, later when they are in trouble and all hope seems lost, swoosh, in comes the character everyone forgot, Wun Fanfan!

And that has likely been stated already, but I do not really feeling like going back through the other posts. I'll do it later though.

[T-6000]

I'm guessing that Wun Fanfan will be semi-important in later chapters, after everything gets setup. Ya know have Tsukune and crew meet him, then, later when they are in trouble and all hope seems lost, swoosh, in comes the character everyone forgot, Wun Fanfan!

And that has likely been stated already, but I do not really feeling like going back through the other posts. I'll do it later though.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was to happen. After all, I didn't expect the captian of the Karate club to come back after he made one appearance. I thought he was just a throwaway character for Kokoa's sub-plot. But lo and behold, he made another appearance assisting Gin with taking out (and kinda off topic, but I wonder what his Monster Form is?). And I never expected the art teacher to be absent after so many chapters, only to return towards the end of the first season. Hell, maybe even Hokuto will return in a future chapter (in fact, I'm counting on it). Though whether he'll be friend or foe is not certain.

[Yasu]

I do believe that Hokuto is definitely going to be making another appearance in this series again, since his friend has already made an short appearance in this series already.

The only question that is left to us to wonder is: "When are these characters going to make there appearance again?"

[GrrDraxin]

By the way guys, 24 is out in raw.

[weview]

Glad to hear it. From what Wun Fanfan has told us about his mafia family, it sounds like they are possibly opponents of Fairy Tale or an organization trying to establish themselves among the other Youkai groups. I wonder if Hokuto fits into the mafia family at all?

[lonercs]

This chapter was SO distrubing. "Toy"? FREAKY TOY?! And "boy love"? I did laugh at how Moka's little sister go a nose blood from BL. Keep up the great work!

[weview]

I'm guessing Fairy Tale isn't the main focus for now. When they first appeared in the form of Mizore's fiancee, it seemed like they were a BIG group. One branch was taken about by Gin however. This fight will probably only last this arc until we're introduced to another enemy in the next arc (hopefully there will be a third arc unless JumpSquare go under. But the Japanese economy seems to be stabilising a bit now)